Wonderful ideas Fergus, this is great to hear other thoughts and ideas, must admit they are ringing true, I am a believer in “train for strength and appropriate size will follow” in sports training, the legendary American football coach, Vince Lombardi once said, “fatigue makes cowards of us all”, so sleep and what you eat are the major conributors to recovery in my book, I want to give a seminar one day, and come up with a clever title that will pack them in, I may use a power point presentation or just a few overheads, they would be in this order, Train Big, Eat and Sleep Big, Get Big and Strong, thanks very much ladies and gentlemen I will now take questions, an oversimplification possibly but as Thibideau has said “complexity is the language of simple minds” cheers, ashley