Core, Yoga, Pilates

[dunne10]

Hi Ashley,

Just wondering if you could give me some advice on my physical development. I am looking to increase my core strength and ROM to enchance my rugby and my gains in the gym, but I heard that yoga wasn’t good as it can be detremental to powertraining (cleans, plyos etc.). Is this actually true? Also should a rugby player looking to develop explosive power do yoga or pilates?
Thanks a million for your time, I really appreciate it.

Cheers,
David

[ashley]

Hi there I am so sorry that you have been so badly advised, yoga is a wonderful complement to all physical activities as is pliates, and remember that all power training is actually excelent core training as well, as well as maximal strength work on Dead Lifts and Squats, if you want to use some great finishing core movements at the completion of any of your strength and power workouts, do some of the classical old time strong man exercises such as Turkish Get ups, Samson Sidebends, Zercher lift & squats, suit case dead lifts, full body twists and anything advocated by Pavel Tsatsouline or Bud Jeffries sucj as his side bend and pick up movement, also bent press and windmills, all these can be seen on You Tube or google them up or maybe Steve can do a video for us,

cheers, ashley

[dunne10]

Thanks for the sound advice, thats some qaulity stuff.

[andrew]

Try and read some of the work by Mike Boyle or Dr Stuart Mcgill.

I am sure your training will benefit greatly. I shudder when I read some of the programs on this site that advocate windmills, side bends, and explosive rotation. The strength world has changed and it is time that people changed with it.

You can find some of their stuff at http://www.t-nation.com

or at Mikes site http://www.strengthcoach.com

The later is a pay site, worth it many times over.

Here are some links to get you started.

http://www.tnation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/the_lumbar_stability_thread

http://www.t-nation.com/ALSAuthor.do?p=Mi Boyle&pageNo=1

Hope this helps

Andrew

[dunne10]

This website has top quality first class programs which I wouldn’t second guess. Explosive rotational work is also a vital part of any rugby players training program as rugby is not just a linear sport, it is a multidirectional game for strength and power athletes and the players need to be able to use there strength and power in all match situations, ie. twisting to steal the ball from your opponent.

All the rotational core work is greatly benefical to players because as well as improving rugby specific conditioning it also can prevent injury and imbalances.

Next time don’t make such an uninformed comment!!!

[andrew]

Deleted, double post – sorry

[andrew]

Have you had a chance to read McGills book, “Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance” ?

Dr. Stuart M. McGill is a professor of spine biomechanics at the University of Waterloo (Waterloo, ON, Canada). His advice is often sought by governments, corporations, legal experts and elite athletes and teams from around the world. Difficult back cases are regularly referred to him for consultation.

His work is the most up to date resource we have. The information presented in this book may well change your opinion on current “Core” training.

This book should be a mandatory textbook for all Strength and Conditioning coaches.

Rotational core work – with movement coming from the lumbar spine, such as windmills, side bends etc. only increases the risk of disc injury and and doesnt meet the needs of core training.

How does the idea of “the core exists to resist rotation , absorb and distribute force” sit with you ?

Much of the information on this site, in my opinion, is unfortunately dangerous and outdated.

Andrew

[dunne10]

I respect your opinion and will get a copy of the book to read before I make any further comment on the issue.

[dan135]

@andrew 1171 wrote:

Try and read some of the work by Mike Boyle or Dr Stuart Mcgill.

I am sure your training will benefit greatly. I shudder when I read some of the programs on this site that advocate windmills, side bends, and explosive rotation. The strength world has changed and it is time that people changed with it.

You can find some of their stuff at http://www.t-nation.com

or at Mikes site http://www.strengthcoach.com

The later is a pay site, worth it many times over.

Here are some links to get you started.

http://www.tnation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/the_lumbar_stability_thread

http://www.t-nation.com/ALSAuthor.do?p=Mi Boyle&pageNo=1

Hope this helps

Andrew

Hi Andrew

Firstly Mike Boyle prescribes a lot of the above exercises however he stresses the importance of limiting the amount of rotation through the lumbar spine, as well as any overstretching which may destabilise the low back. Maybe you can ask Mike if it’s a good thing to have jumping cartoon men demonstrating all his exercises (including windmills and side-bends).

As far as quoting “the core exists to resist rotation , absorb and distribute force” sit with you ?… I am sure this is was written with regards to most daily activities, not playing a game of rugby. And I am sure it is ok to incorparate some rotary strength/power work whilst training for a sport which requires rotary strength and power.

The work of MacGill, Sahrman, DeRosa etc. will always clash with most strength coaches around the world, not to say that they are wrong but there will always be a gap between some text books and the real world.

C’mon just look at the athletes these guys are producing, there is no need at all to criticise this site.

Dan

[andrew]

You learn via challenging ideas, trying new things etc.

The NRL strength coaches have players getting non-contact injuries all of the time. I have watched first hand, from 15ft their techniques and implementation of programs. They are have people trying to hold side bridges for 1 min when they cannot hold with good technique for 10secs.

They have athletes squatting with load when they cannot perform a body weight squat.

They are using the same exercises with the players that they used in their playing days.

This isnt the odd occassion, it is the norm.

Have a look at the video on

http://www.adrenalineperformancecenter.com/

There arnt many Rugby or NRL players that could perform like that.

Andrew

[simon]

Andrew,

As with any industry there will always be good and bad practitioners and Strength and Conditioning is no different. You may well have witnessed some poor examples of S&C coaching but all programs are only as effective or ineffective as the coach implementing them.

I for one believe that in many cases the Strength and Conditioning industry has not moved on for the better. Many coaches seem to have moved away from prescribing the Olympic lifts, squats, deadlifts etc to the detriment of their athletes, instead favoring the latest ‘fad’ or trend that promise the world.

I agree with you that we will never learn unless we question others and the beauty of our industry is that there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ way. The key, is to find a philosophy that works for you and that you are passionate about so that the athletes that you work with ‘buy’ into it 100%. If then the results are positive then you will be on the right track, if not, it would then be time to re-evaluate and look to a different pathway.

Cheers
Simon

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