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  • #23243
    tomwill
    Guest

    Hi Ashley and Damian,

    I was hoping you wouldn’t mind taking a look at this programme and letting me know what you think? I’m aspiring to be an S&C coach (doing my UK qualifications now) and this is my first crack at a pre-season strength programme.

    To give you some background: it’s for myself, (i play full-back) and i’ve been doing west side 4SB for the last 4 weeks for early-preseason strength/hypertrophy. i’m planning on using this as a more rugby specific programme for the next month before we start our warm up games.

    any ideas, comments or suggestions are massively appreciated!

    cheers fellas and keep up the good work
    tom

    monday: upper body strength
    bench press
    bent rows
    overhead press (dumbell or barbell)
    pull ups (different grip each week)
    dips
    all 3 sets x 5 reps

    tuesday: lower body power
    SAQ drills- 10 mins
    plyometrics (different each week- around 30-40 contacts)
    olympic lift 5 x 5,4,3,2,1 (different lift each week)
    barbell rotations 3-4 x 4-6 each side
    lunge jumps on smith machine 4 x 6 each leg
    core work

    tuesday PM: rugby training

    wednesday: upper body power
    push press or jerk 4 x 4-6
    plyometric push up variation 3 x 4-6
    single arm inverted rows on smith machine 3-4 x 6-8 each arm
    bench throws on smith 3-4 x 6-8
    bicep curls (barbell or dumbell) 3 x 6-8
    shoulder stability work

    thursday PM: rugby training

    friday: lower body strength
    squats
    straight leg deads
    unilateral (alternate step ups or lunges each week)
    all 3 sets x 5 reps
    core work

    saturday: rugby training
    sunday: off

    #24106
    ashley
    Guest

    Hey Tom, thanks for sending in your program, looks very solid to me, not much I would tinker with there, I would stick with the same exercise for at least 2 and probably more appropriately 3 weeks in this phase of training so you can at least get an adaptation to the exercise rather than changing each week, also I would stay out of the Smith machine if you can and do the power work with bars instead, just a personal thing but I feel you get a more natural feel to the movement rather than running up and down on rails, also I would increase a set each week on the monday and friday workouts, then change the movements and start again at 3 x 5, thus increasing volume over time, I also might swap friday and wednesdat around so you are fresh lower body wise for training on Saturday, cheers Tom, go well, ashley

    #24118
    tomwill
    Guest

    hey ash,
    thanks for the feedback, i really appreciate your advice and time.

    i had another question if you don’t mind: are there any specific plyos you like to use for outside backs?
    i’ve been doing mostly box jumps but are there others you find useful?

    cheers,
    tom

    #24107
    ashley
    Guest

    Cheers Tom no worries at all, as for plyos in gym we will do jump ups to a box, a limted amount of depth jumps either back on to a box or for height or over a hurdle or long jump for distance, we also do a lot of knees to feet jumps both loaded and unloaded also onto rubber mats for height, outside we do a lot of bounding, hopping and 2 feet jumps for distance and time, if you are unfamiliar with any of these there are dozens of videos on you tube, my all time favourite is the Werner Gunthor video, go well, ashley

    #24113
    damian
    Guest

    G’day Tom

    I would agree with Ash’s comments on keeping an exercise for a least a 3 week cycle. Particularly any of the Olympic lifts which can be more technically demanding.

    As to what I think of the program? Well it looks pretty solid but it depends on what your goals are and if these are achieved at the end of the program. At the Brumbies we work on the concept of whether an athlete is above or below the line in a certain quality. For example, if I thought you were above the line with your gym strength then I may have you doing more speed work than you are currently doing. However, if you still needed to put on more lean muscle mass than I would have you in the gym more!

    I’m also going to kick a sacred cow here and say that I feel upper body power is over rated. I think it is more appropriate for the lower body where you are trying to take advantage of the stretch shortening cycle for sprinting and jumping etc.

    I would also be careful as to how ‘specific’ you think you are in the gym. Just about everything in the gym is general compared to playing rugby. I like the idea from Ian King who looks more at transfer than specificity. Something may not look specific but if it is transfering what you want into your sport than that is what you are after.

    As for other plyos etc in addition to what Ash has suggested we would also do speed bounds, stiff legged bounds and borzov jumps (basically a single leg hop with the back leg supported).

    Good luck and let me know how it goes

    Cheers

    Damian

    #24119
    tomwill
    Guest

    cheers to both of you for the feedback. it’s very much appreciated and definitely helpful!

    i’ll try making some of those adjustments and see how i go.

    one question i did have i forgot to mention in my earlier post was about olympic lifts: do you rate the clean or the snatch as a better power developer and/or transfer-to-rugby lift?
    i use both but was wondering if you felt one had more value than the other?

    thanks again fellas,
    tom

    ps: ashley, thanks for tip off about the werner gunthor video…. awesome!!

    #24114
    damian
    Guest

    No worries Tom.

    As to which lift is better? I think the answer is both….and none. I like the clean at certain times because there is more load involved hitting more than strength end of the power curve than speed. However, I also like the snatch for the opposite reasons. Faster, quicker lift. Also don’t forget the split leg varieties. There are also times when I use something different like a jump squat due to variation or because the athlete might not be proficient in the Olympic lifts. Remember that all lifting is a means to an end unless you are an Olympic lifter or Power lifter. We also do a lot of our cleans and snatches from the hang/blocks because I don’t think many of the players hold good posture from the bottom position.

    But you want an answer don’t you! The Power Snatch because players often can’t can’t into a good clean catching position due to wrist flexibility/injuries catching the bar above head is excellent for shoulder strength and stability.

    Cheers

    Damian

    #24108
    ashley
    Guest

    Personally I love both lifts, but often find the snatch easier to teach than the clean since a lot of guys have problems catching the clean comfortably and correctly, also I am starting to use a lot more split style for both lifts and a lot of DB work as well, philosophically I am an Olympic based programmer with modifications to suit the individual, ash

    #24109
    ashley
    Guest

    @damian 225 wrote:

    G’day Tom

    I would agree with Ash’s comments on keeping an exercise for a least a 3 week cycle. Particularly any of the Olympic lifts which can be more technically demanding.

    As to what I think of the program? Well it looks pretty solid but it depends on what your goals are and if these are achieved at the end of the program. At the Brumbies we work on the concept of whether an athlete is above or below the line in a certain quality. For example, if I thought you were above the line with your gym strength then I may have you doing more speed work than you are currently doing. However, if you still needed to put on more lean muscle mass than I would have you in the gym more!

    I’m also going to kick a sacred cow here and say that I feel upper body power is over rated. I think it is more appropriate for the lower body where you are trying to take advantage of the stretch shortening cycle for sprinting and jumping etc.

    I would also be careful as to how ‘specific’ you think you are in the gym. Just about everything in the gym is general compared to playing rugby. I like the idea from Ian King who looks more at transfer than specificity. Something may not look specific but if it is transfering what you want into your sport than that is what you are after.

    As for other plyos etc in addition to what Ash has suggested we would also do speed bounds, stiff legged bounds and borzov jumps (basically a single leg hop with the back leg supported).

    Good luck and let me know how it goes

    Cheers

    Damian

    I agree with Damian with the Ian King comment about transfer, too many coaches try and duplicate skills with load in the gym, as I think Dave Tate would say train in the gym for what you can not get anywhere else, size, strength and power, alos with the upper body power, most times it is generated through lower body first then transferred through a strong core to the end point so concentrate most of your efforts on explosive activities initiated by the lower bosy and ensure your core is strong enough to take it, go well, ash

    #24120
    tomwill
    Guest

    thanks for the input fellas, it’s top drawer advice.

    i’m sure i speak for everyone on the forum when i say it’s a privilige to get feedback from two guys who work at the sharp end of the industry.

    following from your comments about transfer, i read a great article on training for sports “specificity”. pretty much backs up what you guys are saying: become a better athlete in the gym, and a better player on the training field.

    if you’re interested it’s in the october 2006 UK Strength and Conditioning Association journal, written by a guy called daniel cleather.

    cheers guys,
    tom

    #24121
    tomwill
    Guest

    thanks for the input fellas, it’s top drawer advice.

    i’m sure i speak for everyone on the forum when i say it’s a privilege to get feedback from two guys who work at the sharp end of the industry.

    following from your comments about transfer, i read a great article on training for sports “specificity”. pretty much backs up what you guys are saying: become a better athlete in the gym, and a better player on the training field.

    if you’re interested it’s in the october 2006 UK Strength and Conditioning Association journal, written by a guy called daniel cleather.

    cheers guys,
    tom

    #24110
    ashley
    Guest

    Thanks for the feedback and the link Tom will have a read when I get the oportunity, appreciate it, ash

    #24116
    fergus
    Guest

    @damian 225 wrote:

    I’m also going to kick a sacred cow here and say that I feel upper body power is over rated. I think it is more appropriate for the lower body where you are trying to take advantage of the stretch shortening cycle for sprinting and jumping etc.

    I would also be careful as to how ‘specific’ you think you are in the gym. Just about everything in the gym is general compared to playing rugby. I like the idea from Ian King who looks more at transfer than specificity. Something may not look specific but if it is transfering what you want into your sport than that is what you are after.

    This is an interesting point.

    It has been on my mind since this post.

    There are 2 ways to look at it …
    1. General – I know you are not suggesting we stop Upper Body Power work totally – but this is where I would disagree slightly in that if we are careful about the stresses on the lower body we can still get a CNS power stimulus – which might be different than a strength stimulus(?) from Upper Body Power Work. Might be very useful for older athletes.
    2. Specific – In Rugby this might be very appropriate for some positions – Front Row etc. In some cases Strength Work is suffcient in the gym – IF the field work is powerful enough to maintain the speed aspect, so therefore powerful upper body stimulus is ok, but a certain amount of faster arm and Upper body work is needed. So in that sense whole body power work (cleans etc) will develop or maintain that.

    Interesting thought though

    #24115
    damian
    Guest

    G’day Fergus

    No I definately was being an extremist. I agree with the role power work has in stimulating the CNS. I would also use upper body power work as a method of increasing max strength e.g. as a primer, contrast set etc. I just think the lower body is more important e.g. SSC (as i said), summation of force etc

    Could you please clarify your second point because i’m not quite sure what you mean.

    Cheers mate

    #24117
    fergus
    Guest

    Are the Upper body demands during the game more strength (isometric possibly) or power based?

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